End of Petrol and Diesel Cars?

[ElNumbre]

According to reports, the government is to announce the end of sales of petrol and diesel engine cars by 2040. Assuming most cars have a 10-15 year life, I hope fuel stations will be around until well into the mid century.

However, it does raise the prospect of how we keep classic cars running. The complexity of converting from leaded to unleaded was hard enough on classic car owners - if you can't buy fuel, then you can't run an infernal combustion engine. Whilst diesel cars can run on other fuels, I'm not aware of an alternative for petrol.

I've always thought the Wind would make a great electric car platform. Lots of battery space in the front and boot, and a RWD electric driven variant would be most exciting. However,I expect the convertion cost would be eye-watering.

It would be a shame to think there would be no mobile Winds in 30 years time, relegated probably to just the Renault museum. Maybe I need to write to my MP.

[pittstop]

From what I've read there seems to be some confusion as to whether new cars after 2040 must be pure electric or whether plug in hybrids will be allowed to ease concerns re range. If hybrids will still exist then there must still be some petrol stations.

Older diesels will run on other fuels but these tend to be much more polluting that modern diesel fuel so I doubt that would be condoned.

I remember fitting an "unleaded head" to my MGBGT. The lead in petrol; as well as raising the octane rating; also protected the original valves & seats from degradation. This head had had hardened valves & valve seats & was easy to fit as on such cars you could actually get at the head easily to remove it.

To prevent pre ignition with the lower octane fuel it was necessary to retard the ignition slightly with a corresponding slight loss of efficiency. I compensated for this with a "high efficiency" straight through exhaust system! Sounded good too!!!

[ElNumbre]

It seems there might be a future - Electric Classic Cars a Welsh company has started doing proper conversions of fossil fuel cars to electric.

Robert Llewellyn (Kryton off of Red Dwarf) has done a feature on a Porsche 911 conversion on his most recent 'Fully Charged' Youtube show.

[johntymac]

[Araf]

Maybe we'll be back to buying petrol in tins, as they did when cars were first on the road.

Alternatively, maybe hydrogen technology will come on and old cars will be converted?

[pittstop]

Just a thought. What about LPG?

Is that cleaner than petrol?

[Araf]

Yes cleaner, though a petroleum product, so a finite resource.

[ElNumbre]

I'm wondering why LPG has never taken off in a big way. I suspect the future in gas powered cars will be hydrogen, if they can make the fuel cells competitive and the hydrogen widely has available.

Interesting though that electric cars seem to be getting to the 200-250 mile range now, which is kind of road trip territory. I'd imagine most people do at most a 50mile commute each day, so 4-5 days travelling without charge, or 'topping off' each night from your slow home charger. And with fast super chargers up and down the country, I'd imagine most folks need to stop after a 250 mile drive, even to just remove and replace fluids.

[pittstop]

Thinking further about LPG. There is conversion cost plus a large tank to accommodate, usually in the boot, & some conversions require one to start on petrol then switch to LPG.

Yes! Bodily fluids can be a problem on a long run.

There will have to be some long range petrol/electric hybrids to accommodate long distance trippers. On our last holiday we did 470 mls one day so recharging at 250 mls would have unacceptably lengthened the time taken for that run.

No one has addressed the issue of commercial vehicles which probably pollute more than personal transport.

[ElNumbre]

I'm trying to think of a major manufacturer that offered an LPG from new. Did Volvo at one point or are they conversions? I suppose having dual running makes the weight, complexity and cost a major downside.

The Tesla supercharger can get put in 80% range in about 40mins. I think I could bear that break on a road trip. And the question many will have to ask is how often they do those Road trips. Is it worth continuing to spend more and more (because you can almost guarantee that taxation of combustion products will continue to increase) for that once or twice a year trip. I suspect only road warriors will benefit from oil burners in the very near future.

If rumors are to be believed, Tesla, Virgin and Volvo are all working on battery or hydrogen powered HGVs. Of course, the HGVS offer a much bigger space for battery storage, although of course that comes at the expense of weight.
Komatsu have recently launched an electric quarry dump truck, although where it is being used, it benefits from transporting the full load down the hill, and going back up empty. That is going to help with range through regenerative braking, but it will be interesting to see how it performs versus it's diesel variant.

[Araf]

Most of the massive quarry dump trucks are powered by electric motors on each wheel. They do have a diesel for power generation though.

As for LPG as a factory option, most companies have tried it....

...and dropped it. There have always been problems with engines specifically designed for petrol.

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